23 forwarded messages...

Georges Monette (gmonette@yorku.ca)
Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:34:15 -0400 ()


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Content-Description: bird watching (fwd)

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Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
From: Jim Benson <GL250012@VENUS.YORKU.CA>
Subject: bird watching
To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>

At last Friday's YUFA meeting, those who want to retain article 14 (and by
extension those who insist that getting to the bottom of York's financial
position is fundamental) were characterized as 'ostriches' out of touch
with the real world. Out there in op/ed-land, it was said, striking over the
'generous' Article 14 and being 11th in salary in the province would be a
non-starter.

A letter in this morning's Star suggests that the 'ostrich' category is
a good one, but that perhaps the wrong members have been assigned to it. The
letter-writer argues, less than whimsically, that because 'Canada can ill
afford social programs, particularly those at the highest cost end (like
tenure), we should probably limit our societal demand to granting one tenured
position per university per year'.

Why stop at caving in over article 14? Let's get those ostrich heads out
of the sand! Why not offer to do away with tenure? Why not offer the
administration to put a cap on salaries? After all, in op/ed-land, the
$70,000 average salary is surely perceived as more than 'generous' (not to
mention the $100,000 category).

The wise 'owls' who have been holding out for financial information as
a pre-requisite for genuine negotions are right. The administration's 'we
can't afford it' line 'parroted' by many vocal YUFA members is much more
than a compensation issue. The administration uses the same rationale
for increasing workload, class size, etc., i.e. quality of education rather
than compensation issues, so getting the financial picture straight is
fundamental here too.

Two questions asked in the spirit of fostering debate and discussion
rather than suppressing it: why this resistance to challenging the
administration line within YUFA? Why are some YUFA members so eager to push
the administration line?

Jim Benson
Glendon/English

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Content-Description: questions of morality? (fwd)

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Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 15:33:22 -0400
Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
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From: Linda Briskin <lbriskin@YorkU.CA>
Subject: questions of morality?
To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
In-Reply-To: <01I99UVLT5UQ000JX2@Venus.YorkU.CA>

One of the themes in the discussion of Article 14 is the 'immorality' of
retired faculty being paid $20,000 to teach a course. It seems to me
equally 'immoral' that within the bargaining unit, salaries range from
lows around $40,000 to highs over $100,000. This suggests an enormous gap
in pay for doing the same work. What is the low waged faculty member
actually paid to teach a course? What is the high paid faculty member
paid? Are those outraged by the supposed 'immorality' of Article 14
equally concerned about these pay gaps?

Linda Briskin
Social Science Division
York University
4700 Keele St
North York, Ontario
Canada M3J 1P3
Tel: 416-736-5054
Fax: 416-736-5615

PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS.
lbriskin@yorku.ca

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Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 17:01:56 -0400
Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
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From: Harvey Simmons <hsimmons@YorkU.CA>
Subject: Negotiations
To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>

A number of issues were raised during the recent one day session
and subsequent discussions/e-mails over Yufa-Administration
negotations and I would like to discuss them.

1. Many people seem to think that the negotiations are over
"power."
I find this notion vague: if we are in a power struggle then
one of our demands should be for power-sharing or greater
participation in decisions at the highest levels of the
administration. I don't think we have asked for that, nor should
we. Most trade unions shy away from shared responsibility for
governance.
Some people seem to think the Adminstration wants to break
the union. This interpretation sees the abrogation of 14 as a
tactic to provoke an (ultimately) unsuccessful strike. But this
interpretation makes support of 14 a litmus test of our support
for the union. In other words, it refuses the notion that 14 has
both merits and demerits, because any willingness to compromise on
14 is seen as collaborating in the Administration's
project of breaking the union. Yet, realistically, we know that we will
have to compromise on some aspects of 14; the negotiating committee should
be discussing that question right now instead of taking an all or nothing
position.

2. There is total confusion over the university's surplus with
estimates ranging from a few million to one recent estimate of
on this listserv of $57 million.
The university has made no secret that it has a surplus. It
claims that the surplus is held for future commitments (replacing
faculty, buying and servicing computers, etc.) and as a cushion
for future expected government cuts.
The union argues the university has concealed surplus funds
under ambiguous account headings or in other devious ways, and it
continues to demand full disclosure which, it seems, it never
gets. This tactic has been used by Yufa many times in the past
and only delays getting down to the inevitable, and detailed
process of negotiating on a point-by-point basis.
The union should aim for a ball park figure on the surplus, and
then bargain hard to get the Administration to use the surplus in the
interest of faculty. Delaying realistic negotiations over the question of
absolute and complete disclosure of financial information is pointless.

3. People are rightly anxious about their future and the future of the
university. The situation at Atkinson is confused and Glendon is in
turmoil. Our salaries have been frozen for three years and the PTR awarded
by the President cost the University nothing (because it is funded from
retirements). There are glaring anomalies in the salary structure and
there is no sign the Administration is willing to appropriate the money to
deal with them. Finally, unilateral abrogation of most provisions of 14
reduces the attractiveness of early retirement and raises important
questions of equity.
No doubt things are bad, yet, in a climate of fear and hostility, it
is wrong to characterize negotiations in apocalyptic terms, as was the
case at the recent Yufa meeting.
The fact, for example, that the Administration has sent us
information about 14 and other matters is par for the course in
negotiations and helps us judge the union's position
against the Administration's position.
To adduce some cases of abuse of decanal power, the
arbitrary and poorly conceived redeployment of Glendon faculty
and increased reporting requirements for sabbaticants as
calculated to undermine or destroy the union is to credit the
Administration with a grand scheme of union busting for which
there is absolutely no evidence.
To refuse to admit that the negotiating committe is badly
split and that the union refused during the summer to enter into
hard-headed and realistic bargaining only contributes to the
current atmosphere of anxiety and confusion.
To imply that the union is split between loyalists and those
who support the Administration does no one any service,
caricatures the actual gradations of opinion within the union,
contributes to bad feeling and, if push comes to shove, will
undermine support for a strike more than any misconceived action
on the part of the Administration.
My feeling is that we should get behind those people on the executive
committee who want to bargain on all items including 14, who will bargain
toughly, but with an intelligent sense of the issues at stake and of what
is and is not possible.

Harvey Simmons, Political Science

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Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
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From: Jim Benson <GL250012@VENUS.YORKU.CA>
Subject: Re: Negotiations
To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>

Harvey Simmons says this:

'To adduce some cases of abuse of decanal power, the
arbitrary and poorly conceived redeployment of Glendon faculty
and increased reporting requirements for sabbaticants as
calculated to undermine or destroy the union is to credit the
Administration with a grand scheme of union busting for which
there is absolutely no evidence'.

As someone on the receiving end, I quite agree with his characterization of
the 'redeployment of Glendon faculty' as 'arbitrary and poorly conceived'.
(The notion that this effort is part of 'a grand scheme of union busting' is
news to me. Who has ever 'adduced' this?) The implication is left
that the 'arbitrary and poorly conceived redeployment of Glendon faculty'
is attributable to a rogue Principal, when in fact it was - and still is as
far as I can tell - enthusiastically endorsed at the highest (and largest)
levels of York administration. From the President on down we were repeatedly
chastized last year for being 'in denial' about the fact that times were
tough, we had no choice, all the other deans were happy to facilitate
redeployment, etc. Every one of these folks was in it up to their ears, 'it'
being 'the arbitrary and poorly conceived redeployment of Glendon faculty' that
Harvey Simmons quite accurately speaks of.

Experience is a great teacher. Promulgation of the notion of a benign and
collegial administration irrationally opposed by hot-heads is, to appropriate
Harvey Simmons' words, a caricature that 'does no one any service'.

What I hear from all too many YUFA members is in fact an attitude which I
had thought was history: 'I'm all right Jack'.

Jim Benson
Glendon/English

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Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
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From: "James N. Porter" <jnporter@YorkU.CA>
Subject: Re: Negotiations
To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95.960909163856.12764E-100000@sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca>

Much of the content of Harvey Simmons' discussion is useful. Most
specifically, it is clear to me that to bargain over Art 14, and for
something like the position endorsed by Social Science and introduced to
Friday's meeting by Steve Levine (to put retirement on a self-financing
basis as defined by a mutually agreed arbitrator), would be fine. The
problem is how to engage the administration in such a business when they
have already implemented a quite different policy through a quite
different process.

Likewise, I support bargaining over compensation; the PTR increment
is far less than we deserve and far less than I believe the university can
afford. The problem here is the same as in the case of Art 14.

Negotiation should also address Linda Briskin's concerns. To her
expression of the ethics of our compensation I can say that the immoral
matter is, for me, not the +/-$20,000, nor the 2.5/1 ratio of starting
to end-of-career salaries. It is the administration's abrogation of the
collective agreement & bargaining process. Yes, I think +/-$20,000 per
course for retirees is a figure that should be renogiated to the level of
a CUPE course directorship ( and the latter figure should be raised). As
for career salary differentials, what is a lifetime of experience worth?

With respect to the place of power in these negotiations, I understand
that YUFA has proposed full and formal faculty participation in decisions
about technological changes of the organization of teaching, and in
development of policy on intellectual property. I would welcome fuller
faculty participation in other aspects of university governance, to move
York toward a more collegial form of university governance. However,
these particulars miss the point of power at York:

The prime current institution of faculty power and vehicle of faculty
participation in university governance is YUFA.

Collective bargaining is, as we all know, an exercise in and of
power. For us to permit the administration to successfully abrogate the
contract through unilateral decision-making is for us to permit YUFA to
become irrelevant. In that case we, as faculty, will have lost our voice
and the prime institution of our power in university governance. Without
YUFA we can each be (re)deployed, or unemployed, in the manner and to the
end that pleases the administration. As Jim Benson implies, those who are
"all right" today can be "inconvenient" tomorrow; neither morality nor
custom could then offer an institutionally consequential defense.

I am among those who think the administration has tried to provoke
and destroy YUFA. But I also think the prime issue facing us is not Art
14, it is that all issues be decided through the collective bargaining
process. Support for that is what I take to be the "litmus test" of both
union support and collective self-respect at this time. This is my
understanding of the sense of the meeting as expressed in the motion
presented by Jan Newson and endorsed at the conclusion of Friday
afternoon's discussion.

James N. Porter
Sociology (Arts)

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From: "Christopher D. Green" <christo@YorkU.CA>
Subject: 14 is not the issue.
To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>

All this talk about Article 14 and, for that matter, salaries is (for the
moment, at least) utterly beside the point. We will undoubtedly get back
to it, but at the present juncture the issue we are fighting for is
whether or not the adminstration is obliged to negotiate a collective
agreement with us AT ALL.

If we hamstring ourselves with infighting about what we might want to
negotiate for (or away) were we indeed bargaining for a contract, the
administration will feel no inclination to negotiate ANY kind of a
contract with us.

First things first. The administration must see that, ultimately, we are
not willing to continue working without a collective agreement of some
kind. Once that is accomplished, perhaps we can indulge in the luxury of
bickering about what sort of contract we will accept.

Christopher D. Green office: (416) 736-5121
Department of Psychology FAX: (416) 736-5814
York University
North York, Ontario M3J 1P3 e-mail: christo@yorku.ca
CANADA

http://www.yorku.ca/dept/psych/people/faculty/cgreen/homepage.htm

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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:48:57 -0400
Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
From: Mike McNamee <mcnamee@YorkU.CA>
Subject: Re: questions of morality?
To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95.960909152709.26189E-100000@sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca>

In the current negotiations YUFA is moving somewhat to narrow the gap;
raising the floor of Assistant Prof considerably and capping raises for
those over 100000. We might go further if it were acceptable to our
members. Mike McNamee

On Mon, 9 Sep 1996, Linda Briskin wrote:

> One of the themes in the discussion of Article 14 is the 'immorality' of
> retired faculty being paid $20,000 to teach a course. It seems to me
> equally 'immoral' that within the bargaining unit, salaries range from
> lows around $40,000 to highs over $100,000. This suggests an enormous gap
> in pay for doing the same work. What is the low waged faculty member
> actually paid to teach a course? What is the high paid faculty member
> paid? Are those outraged by the supposed 'immorality' of Article 14
> equally concerned about these pay gaps?
>
> Linda Briskin
> Social Science Division
> York University
> 4700 Keele St
> North York, Ontario
> Canada M3J 1P3
> Tel: 416-736-5054
> Fax: 416-736-5615
>
> PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS.
> lbriskin@yorku.ca
>

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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 08:28:02 -0400
Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
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From: Mike McNamee <mcnamee@YorkU.CA>
Subject: Re: questions of morality?
To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95.960909152709.26189E-100000@sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca>

What is wrong with 20,000 per course?. This works out at 50,000 per 2-1/2
courses (an average full-time load), about the same as new Faculty get.
Thus the administration gets the services of a highly experienced teacher
for the price of a novice. That is a good deal. Of course it could be
taught more cheaply by CUEW--so could ALL the courses. We feel that,
in general , most courses should be taught by full-time faculty. That
includes retirees.

On Mon, 9 Sep 1996, Linda Briskin wrote:

> One of the themes in the discussion of Article 14 is the 'immorality' of
> retired faculty being paid $20,000 to teach a course. It seems to me
> equally 'immoral' that within the bargaining unit, salaries range from
> lows around $40,000 to highs over $100,000. This suggests an enormous gap
> in pay for doing the same work. What is the low waged faculty member
> actually paid to teach a course? What is the high paid faculty member
> paid? Are those outraged by the supposed 'immorality' of Article 14
> equally concerned about these pay gaps?
>
> Linda Briskin
> Social Science Division
> York University
> 4700 Keele St
> North York, Ontario
> Canada M3J 1P3
> Tel: 416-736-5054
> Fax: 416-736-5615
>
> PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS.
> lbriskin@yorku.ca
>

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Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
From: Robert Drummond <robertd@YorkU.CA>
Subject: Re: questions of morality?
To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>
In-Reply-To: Mike McNamee <mcnamee@YorkU.CA> "Re: questions of morality?" (Sep
10, 8:28am)

Mike makes a good point about salaries for post-retirement teaching, but if
we have to move somewhere in this article to build membership support,
cutting the teaching rate paid to persons already on pension would be high on
my list of priorities -- and it is high on the list of almost everyone I talk
to about the matter. Regards, Bob

--
Robert J. Drummond, Associate Professor
Political Science, York University
4700 Keele St., North York, Ontario
Canada  M3J 1P3
Office: (416) 736-5265
e-mail: robertd@yorku.ca

--1134210-28617-842844855=:-91293 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960915233252.-91293M@default> Content-Description: The cost of teaching a course. (fwd)

Return-Path: owner-yufa-l@YORKU.CA Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA08853; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA06857; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:27:20 -0400 Received: from YORKU.CA by YORKU.CA (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 210468 for YUFA-L@YORKU.CA; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:27:19 -0400 Received: from suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (Mpenpjz4lpDJNuDdP/wIcryupZ48aPaK@suntan.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.89]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA06493 for <yufa-l@comet.ccs.yorku.ca>; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:27:19 -0400 Received: from sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca (sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.87]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA08733 for <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:27:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jheddle@localhost) by sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.11) id JAA19520; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:27:17 -0400 X-Sender: jheddle@sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.960910092451.25368K-100000@sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:27:17 -0400 Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> From: "John A. Heddle" <jheddle@YorkU.CA> Subject: The cost of teaching a course. To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.95.960910082421.14322C-100000@angel.phoenix.yorku.ca>

It is not appropriate to deduce the cost of teaching a course by taking a YUFA member's salary and dividing it by the number of courses she teaches. A faculty member has many other responsibilities besides teaching.

John A. Heddle, 416-736-2100 x33053 Department of Biology, York University, fax -5698 Toronto, Canada M3J 1P3

--1134210-28617-842844855=:-91293 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960915233253.-91293N@default> Content-Description: Re: questions of morality? (fwd)

Return-Path: owner-yufa-l@YORKU.CA Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA12340; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA08356; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:46:20 -0400 Received: from YORKU.CA by YORKU.CA (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 210896 for YUFA-L@YORKU.CA; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:46:20 -0400 Received: from suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (mONZoDCJY2OW3vMp87pJByTne4obZXZ5@suntan.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.89]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA07989 for <yufa-l@comet.ccs.yorku.ca>; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:46:19 -0400 Received: from sunray.ccs.yorku.ca (sunray.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.86]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA12119 for <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dheller@localhost) by sunray.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.11) id JAA14051; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:46:14 -0400 X-Sender: dheller@sunray.ccs.yorku.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.960910093416.12952C-100000@sunray.ccs.yorku.ca> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:46:13 -0400 Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> From: Deborah Heller <dheller@YorkU.CA> Subject: Re: questions of morality? To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.95.960910064651.20926C-100000@dekan.phoenix.yorku.ca>

I have the sense that Linda Briskin's quite good point is not being fully grapsed. Mike McNamee's response that Yufa is "moving somewhat to narrow the gap" by raising the the floor and capping the ceiling suggests that the gross inequities of salaries among faculty members who have been teaching for many years are not Yufa's concern. Why not? When Yufa published a list of "average salaries" at Ontario universities last spring, I trust I was not the only York faculty to be stunned to discover how low my salary was for my age & years of service compared to the "YORK average" that Yufa was complaining about. Harvey Simmons' letter also referred to the disparities among York salaries, but otherwise there has been little reference to it in Yufa's communications or on this list. Along with concern for average salaries (and Article 14), the existing inequities also seem to me a cause for concern.

Deborah Heller Atkinson Humanities

On Tue, 10 Sep 1996, Mike McNamee wrote:

> In the current negotiations YUFA is moving somewhat to narrow the gap; > raising the floor of Assistant Prof considerably and capping raises for > those over 100000. We might go further if it were acceptable to our > members. Mike McNamee > > On Mon, 9 Sep 1996, Linda Briskin wrote: > > > One of the themes in the discussion of Article 14 is the 'immorality' of > > retired faculty being paid $20,000 to teach a course. It seems to me > > equally 'immoral' that within the bargaining unit, salaries range from > > lows around $40,000 to highs over $100,000. This suggests an enormous gap > > in pay for doing the same work. What is the low waged faculty member > > actually paid to teach a course? What is the high paid faculty member > > paid? Are those outraged by the supposed 'immorality' of Article 14 > > equally concerned about these pay gaps? > > > > Linda Briskin > > Social Science Division > > York University > > 4700 Keele St > > North York, Ontario > > Canada M3J 1P3 > > Tel: 416-736-5054 > > Fax: 416-736-5615 > > > > PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS. > > lbriskin@yorku.ca > > >

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Return-Path: owner-yufa-l@YORKU.CA Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18978; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:39:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA09926; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:39:21 -0400 Received: from YORKU.CA by YORKU.CA (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 211420 for YUFA-L@YORKU.CA; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:39:20 -0400 Received: from comoro.yorku.ca (3+YvWwdlsGP1eVxdyPy4cNUKPtCD/ahu@comoro.yorku.ca [130.63.236.55]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA07886 for <yufa-l@comet.ccs.yorku.ca>; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:39:20 -0400 Received: from christo (pugsly06.slip.yorku.ca [130.63.219.111]) by comoro.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA13238 for <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:39:19 -0400 X-Sender: christo@postoffice.yorku.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960910103640.-130295A-100000@christo> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:39:35 -0400 Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> From: "Christopher D. Green" <christo@YorkU.CA> Subject: Re: questions of morality? To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.95.960910082421.14322C-100000@angel.phoenix.yorku.ca>

On Tue, 10 Sep 1996, Mike McNamee wrote:

> What is wrong with 20,000 per course?. This works out at 50,000 per 2-1/2 > courses (an average full-time load), about the same as new Faculty get. > Thus the administration gets the services of a highly experienced teacher > for the price of a novice. That is a good deal. Of course it could be > taught more cheaply by CUEW--so could ALL the courses. We feel that, > in general , most courses should be taught by full-time faculty. That > includes retirees. > > On Mon, 9 Sep 1996, Linda Briskin wrote: > > > One of the themes in the discussion of Article 14 is the 'immorality' of > > retired faculty being paid $20,000 to teach a course. It seems to me > > equally 'immoral' that within the bargaining unit, salaries range from > > lows around $40,000 to highs over $100,000. This suggests an enormous gap > > in pay for doing the same work. What is the low waged faculty member > > actually paid to teach a course? What is the high paid faculty member > > paid? Are those outraged by the supposed 'immorality' of Article 14 > > equally concerned about these pay gaps?

I beg your pardon? Last time I looked, teaching was but one-third of my responsibilities (remember research and service?), and therefore presumably worth one-third of my salary. Retired faculty are paid for doing neither of these. So, take the $50,000 (I, for one, don't make that much, but let that pass for now), divide it by 3 ($16,667), and divide that by 2-1/2 ($6,667 per course).

Christopher D. Green office: (416) 736-5121 Department of Psychology FAX: (416) 736-5814 York University North York, Ontario M3J 1P3 e-mail: christo@yorku.ca CANADA

http://www.yorku.ca/dept/psych/people/faculty/cgreen/homepage.htm

--1134210-28617-842844855=:-91293 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960915233254.-91293P@default> Content-Description: Re: questions of morality? (fwd)

Return-Path: owner-yufa-l@YORKU.CA Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA20109; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA09555; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:49:34 -0400 Received: from YORKU.CA by YORKU.CA (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 211494 for YUFA-L@YORKU.CA; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:49:34 -0400 Received: from suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (iK7Z9tOGrI3OWMCBO8Krn/QRwaivAa7q@suntan.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.89]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA10264 for <yufa-l@comet.ccs.yorku.ca>; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:49:34 -0400 Received: from sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca (sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.85]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA20061 for <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from robertd@localhost) by sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.11) id KAA11982 for YUFA-L@YorkU.CA; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:49:31 -0400 References: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960910103640.-130295A-100000@christo> X-Mailer: Z-Mail Lite (3.2.0 24apr95) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <9609101049.ZM11980@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:49:30 -0400 Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> From: Robert Drummond <robertd@YorkU.CA> Subject: Re: questions of morality? To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> In-Reply-To: "Christopher D. Green" <christo@YorkU.CA> "Re: questions of morality?" (Sep 10, 10:39am)

It is of course quite right that what we do is a lot more than teaching, and we presumably ask no more of our retired colleagues than that they teach (though many do more). The current rate is derived by dividing the floor salary for a full Professor by 3. One could devise a defence for almost any number, but if teaching is half of what we do (a tenuous assumption, I grant) then half of a third of the rate (i.e., 1/6 the rate) for a full Professor floor (or average?) might be a not unreasonable compensation. That would be $10,920 (not far off the current $10,603 CUPE course director rate). Regards, Bob

--
Robert J. Drummond, Associate Professor
Political Science, York University
4700 Keele St., North York, Ontario
Canada  M3J 1P3
Office: (416) 736-5265
e-mail: robertd@yorku.ca

--1134210-28617-842844855=:-91293 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960915233254.-91293Q@default> Content-Description: How much to pay for the teaching of a course. (fwd)

Return-Path: owner-yufa-l@YORKU.CA Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA27524; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA11131; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:46:55 -0400 Received: from YORKU.CA by YORKU.CA (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 211811 for YUFA-L@YORKU.CA; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:46:55 -0400 Received: from suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (0LP6KFp1lOplcBzY6u61UpdZq/hfFrI1@suntan.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.89]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA10832 for <yufa-l@comet.ccs.yorku.ca>; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:14:13 -0400 Received: from sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca (sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.87]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA23456 for <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jheddle@localhost) by sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.11) id LAA24690; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:14:11 -0400 X-Sender: jheddle@sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.960910105708.21227B-100000@sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:14:11 -0400 Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> From: "John A. Heddle" <jheddle@YorkU.CA> Subject: How much to pay for the teaching of a course. To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> In-Reply-To: <9609101049.ZM11980@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca>

Those who have already retired with the expectation of teaching a course for $20,000+/a, might be rather unhappy at receiving about half that, and might have some legal case as well. I know one of them consulted a lawyer about it before accepting Article 14 retirement. On the other hand, twice the going rate seems too high to me and to several others with whom I have discussed this. Perhaps the compromise is to pay the going rate for any future retirees and leave the exiting retirees with their expected higher rates of pay.

Obviously Article 14 was designed to encourage people to retire early. I do not think it was YUFA's position that this was desirable, but neither would YUFA wish to object to giving its members greater flexibility in their lives. Personally, I see the Article 14 provisions as very attractive if I wanted to retire early, but I don't. I see salaries and basic support of YUFA members as far more important. I would wish the retirement benefits of those who retire at the "normal retirement date" as far more important than benefits for those who wish to retire early. Especially, I see the maintenance of heath benefits, medical, dental, and vision at no cost to retirees as more important than how much a person is paid to teach a course.

John A. Heddle, 416-736-2100 x33053 Department of Biology, York University, fax -5698 Toronto, Canada M3J 1P3

--1134210-28617-842844855=:-91293 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960915233254.-91293R@default> Content-Description: Re: The cost of teaching a course. (fwd)

Return-Path: owner-yufa-l@YORKU.CA Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19383; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA16894; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:34:08 -0400 Received: from YORKU.CA by YORKU.CA (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 213250 for YUFA-L@YORKU.CA; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:34:07 -0400 Received: from comoro.yorku.ca (pglrpVpTh2HF/8LVINQLKSEJbJkat1rD@comoro.yorku.ca [130.63.236.55]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA16824 for <yufa-l@comet.ccs.yorku.ca>; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:34:07 -0400 Received: from angel.phoenix.yorku.ca (7XdgeeT5i45BoSG2eQYv199pQ815AYuX@angel.phoenix.yorku.ca [130.63.236.44]) by comoro.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA27451 for <YUFA-L@yorku.ca>; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:34:06 -0400 Received: from localhost (mcnamee@localhost) by angel.phoenix.yorku.ca (8.6.11/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA14131 for <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:33:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: angel.phoenix.yorku.ca: mcnamee owned process doing -bs X-Sender: mcnamee@angel.phoenix.yorku.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.960910143319.34053B-100000@angel.phoenix.yorku.ca> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:33:49 -0400 Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> From: Mike McNamee <mcnamee@YorkU.CA> Subject: Re: The cost of teaching a course. To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95.960910092451.25368K-100000@sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca>

In most cases retirees will do other stuff i.e. research. Mike MCNamee

On Tue, 10 Sep 1996, John A. Heddle wrote:

> It is not appropriate to deduce the cost of teaching a course by taking a > YUFA member's salary and dividing it by the number of courses she teaches. > A faculty member has many other responsibilities besides teaching. > > John A. Heddle, 416-736-2100 x33053 > Department of Biology, York University, fax -5698 > Toronto, Canada M3J 1P3 >

--1134210-28617-842844855=:-91293 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960915233255.-91293S@default> Content-Description: Randomized Response Survey(s) of YUFA Members on Sensitive Employment Issues. (fwd)

Return-Path: owner-yufa-l@YORKU.CA Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07104; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:56:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA23708; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:56:14 -0400 Received: from YORKU.CA by YORKU.CA (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 224170 for YUFA-L@YORKU.CA; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:56:14 -0400 Received: from comoro.yorku.ca (PiBWRDzJRYYgc6Jp9sNSeErjZp9Y9ZRZ@comoro.yorku.ca [130.63.236.55]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA18180 for <yufa-l@comet.ccs.yorku.ca>; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:56:13 -0400 Received: from jazari.econ.yorku.ca (jazairi.econ.yorku.ca [130.63.230.27]) by comoro.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA06971 for <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:56:11 -0400 X-Sender: nuri@postoffice.yorku.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960911144542.-197863F-100000@jazari.econ.yorku.ca> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:57:49 -0400 Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> From: Nuri Jazairi <nuri@YorkU.CA> Subject: Randomized Response Survey(s) of YUFA Members on Sensitive Employment Issues. To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>

To: YUFA Members

From: Nuri Jazairi / Economics, Arts

Subject: Randomized Response Survey of the Views of YUFA Members on Sensitive Issues.

1. The Purpose of this survey is to provide important and reliable information to YUFA members and others interested individuals about the relative strength of feelings among YUFA members about some sensitive employment issues without the possibility of knowing the identity of those who support or oppose one issue or another. This total confidentiality is achieved by the randomized response survey method invented by Stanley L. Warner, who was a York professor until his death in August 1992. If there is interest in this kind of survey, it will be used to solicit answers to more sensitive and complex questions such as whether YUFA members support or oppose a strike about the current dispute with the Administration.

2. All YUFA Members on this E-mailing list are invited to participate in the survey.

3. How to Participate: There are two (unrelated) questions, called A and B and explained below. You answer only ONE of the them with a "YES" or "NO" according to the following randomization process. You flip a coin twice. The four possible outcomes are: {(H,H) (H,T) (T,H) (T,T)} where H means head and T means tail, and (H,H) means the result of the first trial is head and the second trial is also head, etc. If the result is one of the first three outcomes [namely: (H,H) (H,T) or (T,H) ], please answer truthfully the following question:

Question A: "Do Consider Immoral that salaries of YUFA Members range from lows around $40,000 to highs over $100,000"

Answer: YES or NO.

If on the other hand the result was two tails (T,T) , then please answer the following question:

Question B: "Flip a coin once. Did You Get A Head?"

Answer: YES or NO.

3. When you finish, please send me E-mail (nuri@yorku.ca) containing only one of the two words : "YES" or "NO".

4. Please, Note that if your answer is "YES", it is impossible for me to know whether the "YES" means you consider this range of salary spread to be immoral (Question A) or you got a head on the flip of a coin at the second stage (Question B). Similarly, if your answer is "NO", this could mean either you do not think this is immoral (Question A) or that you got tail on flipping a coin (Question B). This is how the randomized response survey method preserves confidentiality fully and absolutely.

5. This survey will be open for YUFA Members to participate in it until 5:00 pm Friday, September 20, 1996. The results will be posted through YUFA E-mail list at 9:00 am Monday, September 23, 1996.

6. If you have any question, please feel free to send me E-mail or call me at x77034 (H: (416) 484-6553).

7. For those of you who have access to the Internet, a good exposition (and some references) to Warner's randomized response model can be found at:

(http://www.geom.umn.edu/docs/education/chance/teaching_aids/RResponse/RResponse.html)

A survey and synthesis (and extensive references) of the randomized response model is in Volume 7 of the Encyclopaedia of Statistical Sciences, pp 540-548. If you need more information about this method, please let me know.

8. Thank you.

--1134210-28617-842844855=:-91293 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960915233257.-91293T@default> Content-Description: Re: Randomized Response Survey(s) of YUFA Members on Sensitive Employment Issues. (fwd)

Return-Path: owner-yufa-l@YORKU.CA Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA28313; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:19:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA29471; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:19:06 -0400 Received: from YORKU.CA by YORKU.CA (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 226168 for YUFA-L@YORKU.CA; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:19:05 -0400 Received: from suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (kNkFyingbVXKje/3qXRFZuPmpXNjXI8N@suntan.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.89]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA31588 for <yufa-l@comet.ccs.yorku.ca>; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:16:09 -0400 Received: from venus.yorku.ca (venus.yorku.ca [130.63.152.41]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA27823 for <YUFA-L@YORKU.CA>; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Venus.YorkU.CA by Venus.YorkU.CA (PMDF V4.3-7 #16474) id <01I9CZBJXR8W000OUX@Venus.YorkU.CA>; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:16:02 EST X-Envelope-to: YUFA-L@YORKU.CA X-VMS-To: IN%"YUFA-L@YORKU.CA" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <01I9CZBJYK6A000OUX@Venus.YorkU.CA> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:16:02 -0500 Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> From: MORRIS <MORRIS@VENUS.YORKU.CA> Subject: Re: Randomized Response Survey(s) of YUFA Members on Sensitive Employment Issues. To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>

Yes

--1134210-28617-842844855=:-91293 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960915233257.-91293U@default> Content-Description: (Fwd) Faculty Associaton Participation in Roundtables and Review (fwd)

Return-Path: owner-yufa-l@YORKU.CA Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10037; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA18639; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:21:50 -0400 Received: from YORKU.CA by YORKU.CA (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 231023 for YUFA-L@YORKU.CA; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:21:50 -0400 Received: from suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (inr9NoXsNXpFeCHjd88k1WGp3t1Uiu7j@suntan.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.89]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA20489 for <yufa-l@comet.ccs.yorku.ca>; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:21:49 -0400 Received: from 130.63.240.65 (yufa5.yufa.yorku.ca [130.63.240.65]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA09955 for <YUFA-L@yorku.ca>; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:21:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: Z-Mail 4.0.1 (4.0.1 Apr 9 1996) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <960912102147.ZM6663@130.63.240.65> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:21:46 -0400 Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> From: Karen Hadley <khadley@YorkU.CA> Subject: (Fwd) Faculty Associaton Participation in Roundtables and Review To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>

--- Forwarded mail from ocufa-list@lglobal.com

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:36:09 -0400 To: ocufa-list@lglobal.com From: Mark Rosenfeld <mrosenfeld@ocufa.on.ca> Subject: Faculty Associaton Participation in Roundtables and Review Reply-To: ocufa-list@lglobal.com

I wanted to follow up on the e-mail I sent on Monday concerning faculty association participation in the upcoming roundtable discussions that the pse Advisory Panel will be holding.

Michael Piva meet with David Smith, chair of the Advisory Panel, this morning and raised the issue of faculty participation in the roundtables. Michael reported Smith was surprised to hear that some faculty association representatives have not been invited by their institution's executive heads to participate in the roundtables. When he sent out the letter to executives heads asking that they choose 5 - 6 representatives to participate, he assumed that faculty association representatives would be asked. We would like to keep track of faculty association participation in the roundtables so that we will be able to raise the issue of participation again with Smith if association representatives are not invited to participate.

If any faculty associations have not been invited by their institution's president to participate in the roundtable, they should write a letter to the president asking to participate, if they have not already done so.

We intend to follow the roundtable and review process closely, so if you have not already e-mailed me with the following information, could you please do so in the next day or so:

1) Has a faculty association representative been invited by your institution's president to participate in a panel roundtable? If so, could you send me the name(s).

2) Has your association asked your university's president to participate in a roundtable?

3) Will your association be involved in preparing a joint administration/ faculty/ student/ staff brief for the review?

4) Will your association be preparing a separate faculty association brief for the review?

5) Is your association planning any events concerning the roundtable and the review? (e.g. information meetings, media conference, joint student/staff/faculty activities)

Thanks for your help. I realize that some of you have already given me some or all of this information.

Mark ____________________________________ Mark Rosenfeld Community and Government Relations Officer Ontario Confederation of University Faculty Associations 416.979.2117 x34 (v) 416.593.5607 (fax)

---End of forwarded mail from ocufa-list@lglobal.com

--1134210-28617-842844855=:-91293 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960915233258.-91293V@default> Content-Description: (Fwd) Locations for PSE Review Panel Roundtables (fwd)

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--- Forwarded mail from ocufa-list@lglobal.com

Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 18:21:02 -0400 To: ocufa-list@lglobal.com From: Mark Rosenfeld <mrosenfeld@ocufa.on.ca> Subject: Locations for PSE Review Panel Roundtables Reply-To: ocufa-list@lglobal.com

There has been a change in the location of the PSE Review panel's roundtable discussion session for North York. The original location was York University but it has been changed to Senca College, 1750 Finch Ave East, North York, Studio Theatre, (416) 491-5050. Representatives from both York and Trent are slated to participate in that session.

The most current panel hearings schedule and updates on the review can be found on the MET web site at:

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca

You should search under Agencies and Commissions.

Alternatively, you can access material on the panel directly at:

http://w3:edu.gov.on.ca:8080//

Mark ____________________________________ Mark Rosenfeld Community and Government Relations Officer Ontario Confederation of University Faculty Associations 416.979.2117 x34 (v) 416.593.5607 (fax)

---End of forwarded mail from ocufa-list@lglobal.com

--1134210-28617-842844855=:-91293 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960915233259.-91293W@default> Content-Description: Re: Article 14 and collective bargaining (fwd)

Return-Path: owner-yufa-l@YORKU.CA Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA27880; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 12:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA21796; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:50:42 -0400 Received: from YORKU.CA by YORKU.CA (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 231637 for YUFA-L@YORKU.CA; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:50:41 -0400 Received: from suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (FfKZR3yzzPgu/ctFd3dXbgTaRtsHBY/V@suntan.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.89]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA22532 for <yufa-l@comet.ccs.yorku.ca>; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:49:19 -0400 Received: from sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca (sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.87]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21284 for <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from weizmann@localhost) by sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.11) id LAA01029; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:49:17 -0400 X-Sender: weizmann@sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.960912110539.27268C-100000@sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:49:16 -0400 Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> From: Fredric Weizmann <weizmann@YorkU.CA> Subject: Re: Article 14 and collective bargaining To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960910001627.-173987B-100000@christo>

There are threeo points I want to make. First, Chris Green is absolutely right. This dispute is not about article 14; it is about the abrogation of collective bargaining by the Administration. Real negotiations can only take place between relative equals. To go back to the table having accepted the unilateral abrogation of the collective agreement represents capitulation, not negotiation. A reasonable willingness to compromise is one thing, begging is quite another.

Second the argument about the morality (or lack or it) of paying $20,000 for a retiring faculty member to teach a course is quite beside the point. There is a teriffic disincentive for retiring early in terms of pension reduction. The payment for teaching a course helps remove part of that disincentive. For most people, it makes it possible for people to retire in their early 60's who would not otherwise be able to do so. Now perhaps this incentive should be provided in some other way, and perhaps it could be smaller and still serve the purpose, but if we reduce the payment too much we will discourage early retirement (and reduce the number of positions open to younger academics). Perhaps this is what we want to do, but we should do so in the context of retirement policy, and not get involved in ultimately pointless arguments about what proportion of our responsibilities teaching represents or what is appropriate compensation for teaching. Its not about teaching, its about retiring.

Finally, I wish we would stop referring to the Administration as "the University." The Administration may be many things, but "the University" is not one of them.

--1134210-28617-842844855=:-91293 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960915233300.-91293X@default> Content-Description: Re: Article 14 and collective bargaining (fwd)

Return-Path: owner-yufa-l@YORKU.CA Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10503; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:08:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA25891; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:08:01 -0400 Received: from YORKU.CA by YORKU.CA (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 233138 for YUFA-L@YORKU.CA; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:08:01 -0400 Received: from suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (r/3mBMlrgR88PQ6ywYK/GBi8N92916LO@suntan.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.89]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA28772 for <yufa-l@comet.ccs.yorku.ca>; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:08:00 -0400 Received: from sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca (sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.87]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10308 for <yufa-l@yorku.ca>; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:07:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lbriskin@localhost) by sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.11) id OAA06672; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:07:48 -0400 X-Sender: lbriskin@sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.960912140212.4653D-100000@sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:07:46 -0400 Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> From: Linda Briskin <lbriskin@YorkU.CA> Subject: Re: Article 14 and collective bargaining (fwd) To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>

Small point in response to James Porter who asked "What is a lifetime of experience worth?" to justify the glaring disparities in faculty salaries. If folks were reading Active Voice, they would know from the statistical studies done on pay equity at York that the disparities are not based on long service. In many instances faculty with 10-20 years plus service are being paid considerably less than others in their own departments who have been at York a shorter time. Gender is significant in structuring inequities. And also generation: when supply of faculty was high in late 1980s, people were hired at very low salaries and can never catch up. Comparisons across departments show even more significant disparities.

Many see Article 14 as a red herring that the Administration is using to divide us. Fundamentally I agree with this view; however, there are many other ways that faculty are ALREADY divided. Some of these divisions -- particularly the abritrary structure of York's compensation system-- inform the responses to Article 14. They cannot be ignored at the bargaining table (if we ever get there) but even more importantly they cannot be ignored in developing strategies to organize the YUFA membership to resist the heavy handedness of the Administration.

Like many others, I agree that the abrogation of the collective agreement is VERY serious: at this point THE issue. Those who continue to criticize the YUFA team for their handling of Article 14 (especially when they also do not acknowledge the fact that YUFA has put forward new language on tech change and workload which the Admin will not discuss, has offered binding arbitration which the Admin refused etc etc) do a great service to the Administration. In fact, their focus on Article 14 makes it difficult to ever discuss these other important issues.

Linda Briskin Social Science Division York University 4700 Keele St North York, Ontario Canada M3J 1P3 Tel: 416-736-5054 Fax: 416-736-5615

PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS. lbriskin@yorku.ca

--1134210-28617-842844855=:-91293 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960915233301.-91293Y@default> Content-Description: smoking gun (fwd)

Return-Path: owner-yufa-l@YORKU.CA Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA29256; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:13:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA05582; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:13:26 -0400 Received: from YORKU.CA by YORKU.CA (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 244318 for YUFA-L@YORKU.CA; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:13:25 -0400 Received: from suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (fU9Eh9IWfN8i8y4Na+XF5AvXJR6aWhT6@suntan.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.89]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA03332 for <yufa-l@comet.ccs.yorku.ca>; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:12:03 -0400 Received: from venus.yorku.ca (venus.yorku.ca [130.63.152.41]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA29050 for <yufa-l@yorku.ca>; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:12:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Venus.YorkU.CA by Venus.YorkU.CA (PMDF V4.3-7 #16474) id <01I9FLE4HI0K000QSC@Venus.YorkU.CA>; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:11:52 EST X-Envelope-to: yufa-l@yorku.ca X-VMS-To: IN%"yufa-l@yorku.ca" X-VMS-Cc: GL250012 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <01I9FLE4HRO6000QSC@Venus.YorkU.CA> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:11:52 -0500 Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> From: Jim Benson <GL250012@VENUS.YORKU.CA> Subject: smoking gun To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>

In his e-mail to the Yufa list, Mark Rosenfeld of Ocufa says this:

> Michael Piva meet with David Smith, chair of the Advisory Panel, this > morning and raised the issue of faculty participation in the > roundtables. Michael reported Smith was surprised to hear that some faculty > association representatives have not been invited by their institution's > executive heads to participate in the roundtables. When he sent out the > letter to executives heads asking that they choose 5 - 6 representatives to > participate, he assumed that faculty association representatives would > be asked.

Those who feel that Yufa wrongly distrusts York administration should wake up and smell the smoke. It's coming from a smoking gun.

If *Smith* is 'surprised' to hear that (in this case) Yufa has not been invited to participate in the York roundtable, and if *Smith* 'assumed' that (in this case) Yufa would have been asked, then the question is why York administrators are not doing their darndest to please this very important person? If I were such an administrator, I'd rectify this gaffe pronto. What a painless, almost heaven-sent opportunity to give the lie to those who claim that York administration routinely treats Yufa with contempt!

Jim Benson English/Glendon

--1134210-28617-842844855=:-91293 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960915233302.-91293Z@default> Content-Description: Re: Randomized Response Survey(s) of YUFA Members on Sensitive Employment Issues. (fwd)

Return-Path: owner-yufa-l@YORKU.CA Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA26429; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.ccs.yorku.ca (comet.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.235.31]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA19621; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:00:08 -0400 Received: from YORKU.CA by YORKU.CA (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 249753 for YUFA-L@YORKU.CA; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:00:08 -0400 Received: from suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (frieSsuHkwSTs+7RxCcah5ZORgGqKKz5@suntan.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.89]) by comet.ccs.yorku.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA25968 for <yufa-l@comet.ccs.yorku.ca>; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:00:07 -0400 Received: from angel.phoenix.yorku.ca (angel.phoenix.yorku.ca [130.63.236.44]) by suntan.ccs.yorku.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA26398 for <YUFA-L@yorku.ca>; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (mcnamee@localhost) by angel.phoenix.yorku.ca (8.6.11/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA45021 for <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA>; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:00:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: angel.phoenix.yorku.ca: mcnamee owned process doing -bs X-Sender: mcnamee@angel.phoenix.yorku.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.960914155249.40952C-100000@angel.phoenix.yorku.ca> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:00:03 -0400 Reply-To: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> Sender: York University Faculty Association List <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> From: Mike McNamee <mcnamee@YorkU.CA> Subject: Re: Randomized Response Survey(s) of YUFA Members on Sensitive Employment Issues. To: Multiple recipients of list YUFA-L <YUFA-L@YorkU.CA> In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.3.93.960911144542.-197863F-100000@jazari.econ.yorku.ca>

I have answered Yes to the survey but it is not really a yes-no question. I think the present differentials are too steep but there should be some. I think that for number of years people do get better at teaching and maybe other things, and their needs do increase as their families grow up and reach age of University education, and e.g. it takes more to feed and clothe a teen-ager than a baby. But by the age of about 55 I think most peoples' children will be more or less off their hands, and their mortgage paid off, and their efficiency levels off (I do not say it decreases). Thus a case could be made for progress thru the ranks from a floor considerably higher than at present, until age about 55, and then a slight "regress-thru-the ranks" or annual reduction until 65, and steady after that till age 70. The total income over the career should remain constant, or increase according to YUFA's demands. Mike McNamee

On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Nuri Jazairi wrote:

> To: YUFA Members > > From: Nuri Jazairi / Economics, Arts > > Subject: Randomized Response Survey of the Views of YUFA Members on > Sensitive Issues. > > > > 1. The Purpose of this survey is to provide important and reliable > information to YUFA members and others interested individuals about the > relative strength of feelings among YUFA members about some sensitive > employment issues without the possibility of knowing the identity of those > who support or oppose one issue or another. This total confidentiality is > achieved by the randomized response survey method invented by Stanley L. > Warner, who was a York professor until his death in August 1992. If there > is interest in this kind of survey, it will be used to solicit answers to > more sensitive and complex questions such as whether YUFA members support > or oppose a strike about the current dispute with the Administration. > > 2. All YUFA Members on this E-mailing list are invited to participate in > the survey. > > 3. How to Participate: There are two (unrelated) questions, called A and B > and explained below. You answer only ONE of the them with a "YES" or "NO" > according to the following randomization process. You flip a coin twice. > The four possible outcomes are: {(H,H) (H,T) (T,H) (T,T)} where H > means head and T means tail, and (H,H) means the result of the first trial > is head and the second trial is also head, etc. If the result is one of > the first three outcomes [namely: (H,H) (H,T) or (T,H) ], please answer > truthfully the following question: > > Question A: "Do Consider Immoral that salaries of YUFA Members range from > lows around $40,000 to highs over $100,000" > > Answer: YES or NO. > > If on the other hand the result was two tails (T,T) , then please answer > the following question: > > Question B: "Flip a coin once. Did You Get A Head?" > > Answer: YES or NO. > > 3. When you finish, please send me E-mail (nuri@yorku.ca) containing only > one of the two words : "YES" or "NO". > > 4. Please, Note that if your answer is "YES", it is impossible for me to > know whether the "YES" means you consider this range of salary spread to > be immoral (Question A) or you got a head on the flip of a coin at the > second stage (Question B). Similarly, if your answer is "NO", this could > mean either you do not think this is immoral (Question A) or that you got > tail on flipping a coin (Question B). This is how the randomized response > survey method preserves confidentiality fully and absolutely. > > 5. This survey will be open for YUFA Members to participate in it until > 5:00 pm Friday, September 20, 1996. The results will be posted through > YUFA E-mail list at 9:00 am Monday, September 23, 1996. > > 6. If you have any question, please feel free to send me E-mail or call me > at x77034 (H: (416) 484-6553). > > 7. For those of you who have access to the Internet, a good exposition > (and some references) to Warner's randomized response model can be found > at: > > (http://www.geom.umn.edu/docs/education/chance/teaching_aids/RResponse/RResponse.html) > > A survey and synthesis (and extensive references) of the randomized > response > model is in Volume 7 of the Encyclopaedia of Statistical Sciences, pp > 540-548. If you need more information about this method, please let me > know. > > 8. Thank you. >

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